Is is Possible to Return N&W 1218 to Steam? (2024)

Possible? Of course. Likely? I'd say "no" until after the VMT Backshop is complete. "Spare" parts off the 1218 were used in the restoration of the 611. They will need to be replaced. In addition, the 1218 is not as complete as the 611 was prior to her restoration. Double the 611 budget and you'll likely be in the ball-park.

Never say never, though.

PRRronbh posted:

All it takes is will and a lot MONEY!!!!!!!!!!

And a railroad willing to run it.

You guys always seem to forget that part.

NKP779 posted:

The well meaning fellow at the Cab Forward is a bit low. If it is a locomotive that hasn't run in fifty years or more, expect more like $2M, and that assumes some volunteer labor.

I like that as you're on the right "track"! I've found over the years restoring various pieces of heavy equipment and a few airplanes that the initial $$$ estimates quickly escalate to where I always figured triple it then add half...or in this case say $3.5 million to restore it.

If everyone would please just step back (don't buy tickets) and let me win the Mega-Millions Lottery, I'd be willing to pledge$10MM to restore both the A and Y. That should be about "enough".

How's that for a big fat pipe dream!

The 1218 will never return to steam as the insides were gutted by NS and sold at auction years ago.

Stephen

Yeah, in the big scheme of things getting a pipe shop to roll in flues is probably not too bad. Running gear and other "wear down" parts however... in a world lacking tool and die shops etc.... It can be done... the folks in Cumberland are proving that every day. It just takes money and more importantly a railroad willing to run it.

Jon

KOOLjock1 posted:

Yeah, in the big scheme of things getting a pipe shop to roll in flues is probably not too bad.

A bit more involved than "getting a pipe shop to roll in flues", as the person/persons had better be experienced in the Boiler Maker trade, as well as experienced in steam locomotive boilers and applicable practices (locomotive boilers are quite a bit different than stationary boilers).

Running gear and other "wear down" parts however... in a world lacking tool and die shops etc....

Tool and die shops are not necessary, but top notch Machinists are. Also, for what it's worth, only one engine on 1218 was completely overhauled prior to the end of the "steam program" on NS. Thus, the other engine needs a complete rebuild, i.e. machinery, spring rigging, pins & bushings, etc..

It can be done... the folks in Cumberland are proving that every day. It just takes money and more importantly a railroad willing to run it.

The "railroad willing to run it" is obviously the MOST important point.

Jon

Gilly@N&W posted:

If everyone would please just step back (don't buy tickets) and let me win the Mega-Millions Lottery, I'd be willing to pledge$10MM to restore both the A and Y. That should be about "enough".

How's that for a big fat pipe dream!

Not big enough. Add 100 million to build a right of way with turning facilities and then I think we're good.

I rode the NS 1218 steam fan trip from Chicago Illinois to Fort Wayne Indiana and back in the early 90s.I completely appreciated that it was an opportunity that may never happen again.I hope the engine runs again,at least it is being preserved.I bought my ticket for the 611 Pocohantas excursion ride in Roanoke Virginia this May.This will be the fifth NS steam excursion trip for me.Enjoy it while you can.

For all of you dreamers, here's a very amateur video that I took a long time ago. Note the open windows on some coach cars, you won't see that in this day and age. Can't beat that "Hooter"!

Dan986 posted:

I rode the NS 1218 steam fan trip from Chicago Illinois to Fort Wayne Indiana and back in the early 90s.I completely appreciated that it was an opportunity that may never happen again.I hope the engine runs again,at least it is being preserved.I bought my ticket for the 611 Pocohantas excursion ride in Roanoke Virginia this May.This will be the fifth NS steam excursion trip for me.Enjoy it while you can.

That looks like the yard office at East Wayne yards, probably while they were servicing the engine. I'm probably standing off to the left side of your picture. Some time in the early 90's NS stopped letting people up close to the engine while they were servicing it. Can't tell enough by the pic if the area is blocked off.

Big Jim..Thanks for posting..nice video...was that VHS..

Wife and I rode excursion behind 1218 from G'boro-Roanoke rnd trip.. lost my tape but yours is much better anyway..

Like that whistle over 611..

For those interested in seeing the 1218 in action, I highly recommend "18 Wheels Of Steel" which was released by Rich Melvin's Hopewell Productions. The video covers the early period of the 1218's second life, in particular the first weekend of public excursions which featured the first trip run in the midst of a massive rainstorm. Very dramatic with breath taking views and sounds, I consider it the best 1218 program available. If we can't have the real thing, this DVD is the best alternative.

Bob

Dan986 posted:

I rode the NS 1218 steam fan trip from Chicago Illinois to Fort Wayne Indiana and back in the early 90s.I completely appreciated that it was an opportunity that may never happen again.

Yeah, I chased her a couple of times in the deep south and rode behind her in the tool car from Jacksonville to Valdosta (GA) soon after she got rebuilt. I'd seen her in 1981 when she was dead and cold in Roanoke, never realizing I'd ride behind her a few years later. By the time we were heading southbound on the NS to JAX, it was dark out. It was like being inside an O Winston Link photo. Lights were coming on at porches all down the line and you could seethe silhouettes of people running outside to see what they were hearing. Still feels like yesterday!

But even at the time, as a teen, my older train fan pals were reminding the classic lesson of train fans: Ride it while you can because it might be gone tomorrow.

OGR Webmaster posted:

The "...insides..." you refer to are the flues. Replacing them is no big deal. Just a few thousand $$$.

I saw the 1218 in Birmingham not long after the steam program ended in 1994. At the time, they had removed not only the flues, but large sections of the crown sheet and sections of the boiler (I took images of the 1218 and the 2716 sitting alongside). As I understand it, 1218 was rushed back into service in 1987, and by 1994, there was plenty of replacement work needed for the firebox and boiler, not just a standard flu replacement. I would say it may be more like $2.5 - $3 million to make her operate again, and then as rich said, where would you run it?

The Gramlings have the right idea for steam operation - small enough to be transported by truck, and can operate on most short line railroads or museums across the US. We all love big steam, but without the right Class 1 railroad or large short line, excursions are few and far between.

Larry Neal posted:

OGR Webmaster posted:

The "...insides..." you refer to are the flues. Replacing them is no big deal. Just a few thousand $$$.

I saw the 1218 in Birmingham not long after the steam program ended in 1994. At the time, they had removed not only the flues, but large sections of the crown sheet and sections of the boiler (I took images of the 1218 and the 2716 sitting alongside). As I understand it, 1218 was rushed back into service in 1987, and by 1994, there was plenty of replacement work needed for the firebox and boiler, not just a standard flu replacement.

I'd forgotten that, as I too got to see her in her partially-disassembled state around the same time. 1218 was going through a great deal of work when NS pulled the plug and I was told by some of the departing steam guys that a lot of parts were simply thrown into the smokebox and the lid tightened. The only other work done after that was just getting her ready for the dead towback to Roanoke another year later.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think getting the Y going would be more interesting.

I'm not sure the Y would be allowed be towed somewhere to work on it. It would be dangerous to try to get it back to St. Louis. It is not rail worthy.
Many of 1218's internal parts were sold off years ago after the dismantling of NS steam program last century. I would say it would take at least 1 million if not more to restore it. We still don't have the money to build the engine maintenance and display facility at the museum. The 611 wouldn't have made it without the generous donation from Norfolk Southern that pushed us over the top. Funding isn't there, the facility isn't built, we have no place to run the engine since the VMT is land-locked.

Scott Smith

scott.smith posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think getting the Y going would be more interesting.

I'm not sure the Y would be allowed be towed somewhere to work on it. It would be dangerous to try to get it back to St. Louis. It is not rail worthy.

Really? Please elaborate on that statement, i.e. "It isn't rail worthy".

Many of 1218's internal parts were sold off years ago after the dismantling of NS steam program last century. I would say it would take at least 1 million if not more to restore it. We still don't have the money to build the engine maintenance and display facility at the museum. The 611 wouldn't have made it without the generous donation from Norfolk Southern that pushed us over the top. Funding isn't there, the facility isn't built, we have no place to run the engine since the VMT is land-locked.

Scott Smith

scott.smith posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think getting the Y going would be more interesting.

I'm not sure the Y would be allowed be towed somewhere to work on it. It would be dangerous to try to get it back to St. Louis. It is not rail worthy.
Many of 1218's internal parts were sold off years ago after the dismantling of NS steam program last century. I would say it would take at least 1 million if not more to restore it. We still don't have the money to build the engine maintenance and display facility at the museum. The 611 wouldn't have made it without the generous donation from Norfolk Southern that pushed us over the top. Funding isn't there, the facility isn't built, we have no place to run the engine since the VMT is land-locked.

Scott Smith

Scott, speaking of 611, where is it located right now?